Curse

bykjt · Mar 18, 2011, 04:52 AM // 04:52

What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?

A. From what I have seen the mercenary heroes don't seem like they are anything special. To me, it's like paying for content that is already included in the game.

Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?

A. To me it seems that all of the content offered in the store such as costumes, extra storage panes, mercenary heroes, etc... were designed to accumulate money from their customers. Obviously the item has to have some sort of appeal to the player but in the end it all comes down to money.

*lemming* · Mar 18, 2011, 04:52 AM // 04:52

His outright dismissal of the slippery slope aspect of the counterargument is extremely troubling. Comparing classes "empirically" makes zero sense in this context.

Karate Jesus · Mar 18, 2011, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

His outright dismissal of the slippery slope aspect of the counterargument is extremely troubling. Comparing classes "empirically" makes zero sense in this context.

My thoughts exactly.

Kunder · Mar 18, 2011, 04:58 AM // 04:58

The only thing I'm concerned about is whether this will be giving Anet an incentive to not give us more heroes. Before hearing of this everyone pretty much agreed that rits and/or mesmers would be getting a 3rd hero sometime soon, probably in WoC. Now you just can't be so sure... ironic that its rits and mesmers who are the most powerful of PvE classes.

If you want to complain about messing up the games themes or values, Cons/PvE skills were 10x worse than this ever was. This also wouldn't hardly be as much of a concern if Anet's idea of PvE balance post-nightfall wasn't to make certain classes ridiculously overpowered (rit/mesmer/necro) while leaving the rest either useless to heroes (all melee) or to be shitty and underpowered (ele/ranger/paragon).

Hugh Manatee · Mar 18, 2011, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Bullet 1&2:This has been a feature that has been requested since day 1, the ability to use your other characters as a henchmen(and 7 heroes, when the concept of a hero was introduced, has been constantly requested). I'm pleased that A-net finally caved to the fanbase, at least in this regard. Remember, It's just PvE, who gives a ****. IIRC their original argument for denial was something like A: they didn't want to waste resourses to code it in,(not much of an issue with the separate dev teams) and B: it would clutter the interface(and TBH it does, I wish I could collapse parts of the hero panels or shrink them a little) whether the heroes would affect actual gameplay wasn't the issue outside the forums iirc, since there were henchmen anyway. Even so, I 6 hero'd the FoW and parts of DoA and was getting closer to a win in UW, and I know it had been done before. The new system just cuts out the workarounds and BS, gives the players who prefer to go it alone what they want. Only thing they screwed up on was they didn't bump the cap in Urgoz/Deep.

Bullet 3: If you're worried about some hypothetical merc hero build being super powerful, We already have whole parties of assassins or whatever speed clearing stuff, I can almost guarantee that a full human party will be stronger always whether gimmick or balanced, A: they get pve skills(even if heroes got pve skills they may not know how to use them), B: they can split more effectively C: while this is debatable, they're also smarter(IE humes know not to stand in AoE and can pull off complicated tactics and strategy ect.). Also remember, it's PvE, who gives a ****...

Bullet 4&5: If by trend you mean more store only content, I have mixed feeling, but just cause I'm short on cash atm

. I was a fan of the Bonus Missions, those were fun, worth the preorder of EotN or the $5 in the store, not so much the costumes, makeovers or xunlai panes, but just because I don't really use them, and the rates for the mercs seems like a bit much TBH but if I had it I'd buy em. They seem to be adding a decent amount of freebie content along with their premium stuff so I'm not that pissed. This seems the best way of giving players what they want while keeping the lights on, a decent compromise.

#6, What this means is that, at least for now bits of GW1 are being maintained well beyond the point some games are, If they do the same to GW2 I can see it being a decent product(though one my dinosaur machine won't run...) They could show PvP more attention, and I wish there was a way to get player content into the game, but meh...

ACWhammy · Mar 18, 2011, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Buyign Nightfall or Eye of the North gives you an advantage over people who only bought Factions or Prophecies because you get Heroes instead of henchman.

Rites · Mar 18, 2011, 05:17 AM // 05:17

i only have one thing to say about the mercenary heroes.....

just like the storage panes, they should have given all players 1 as a teaser and the option to buy more would be there

Karate Jesus · Mar 18, 2011, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACWhammy

Buyign Nightfall or Eye of the North gives you an advantage over people who only bought Factions or Prophecies because you get Heroes instead of henchman.

I think the point is that Nightfall and EotN have content as well. Paying for new content has always been expected of every game. If someone releases an expansion, you should pay for it if you want the advantages inherent.

The difference is when the product being sold comes across as purely for an advantage in the game and carries no real content outside of an aesthetical change and a game advantage (like the pets in Aion).

FoxBat · Mar 18, 2011, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

The only thing I'm concerned about is whether this will be giving Anet an incentive to not give us more heroes. Before hearing of this everyone pretty much agreed that rits and/or mesmers would be getting a 3rd hero sometime soon, probably in WoC. Now you just can't be so sure...

I honestly don't think so, especially at this stage after most sales have been made. I'm sure these mercs have been in planning for a while, and John was fully aware of them when he suggested we'd see more heroes as rewards in upcoming content. Some people surely buy it for an advantage, but Anet chose to market it as a cosmetic because they figured most of their sales would come that way.

Also he did say an update to melee AI is coming. Don't know if it will go far enough, but clearly the money disincentive is not a huge argument. On the contrary, they might be going ahead with it just to make your melee alt a viable merc.

Captain Bulldozer · Mar 18, 2011, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I think the point is that Nightfall and EotN have content as well. Paying for new content has always been expected of every game. If someone releases an expansion, you should pay for it if you want the advantages inherent.

The difference is when the product being sold comes across as purely for an advantage in the game and carries no real content outside of an aesthetical change and a game advantage (like the pets in Aion).

Such an argument has its limits, however. Yes, when you buy NF or EotN you get content. However, the advantages of owning said campaign/expansion are not limited to that content. Thus, owning them gives a player in the Factions setting an advantage over someone who doesn't own them. Also, there are other in game purchases that don't include additional "content" such as storage panes and skill unlock packs. The give advantages (albeit small ones) over people who don't have them as well. Also, its entirely possible the sales from merc heroes make it more likely that we'll all get new FREE content that we might not have otherwise.

The really important question is whether said advantages are unfair. In the case of merc heroes, so far I'd have to say no. With 7-hero parties it is now quite possible to /faceroll pretty much all of PvE, as many of us discovered almost immediately. Of course this was largely the case before 7-heroes as well. Still with only the existing in game heroes there are quite a few variations that effectively switch you to "easy mode". Merc heroes don't change that.

Karate Jesus · Mar 18, 2011, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Such an argument has its limits, however. Yes, when you buy NF or EotN you get content. However, the advantages of owning said campaign/expansion are not limited to that content. Thus, owning them gives a player in the Factions setting an advantage over someone who doesn't own them. Also, there are other in game purchases that don't include additional "content" such as storage panes and skill unlock packs. The give advantages (albeit small ones) over people who don't have them as well.

I guess what I'm trying to suggest is difficult for me to word because I'm not really on this side of the fence.

I think the perspective is that when you purchase a game, you're receiving content. That content includes new professions, new skills, new weapon skins, new areas, new challenges, new heroes, etc. And a big difference is that it can be sold in a store. You can physically go and buy a copy of "Factions". You can't buy a copy of "Mercenary Heroes". See what I mean?

Although it is an "advantage" to own an expansion, that's not the selling point and obviously not the intent. The selling point of these heroes seems to be "cosmetic" and "advantageous". When you sell something that enables a person to do elite content by his or her self, that seems like a different issue.

But again, this is me trying to clarify something that I don't necessarily buy into.

Uriel_Wolfblood · Mar 18, 2011, 05:58 AM // 05:58

I don't see what all the fuss is about honestly. There is nothing merc heroes offer that can't be done with the currently available heroes. Sure there are gimmick builds, but something like full necro, full mesmer, full rit, etc is pretty pointless in my opinion.

Are they selling more options for players? Sure. Are they selling a direct advantage? I don't think so. The only thing I ever got out of it was aesthetic appeal at seeing my beloved characters fighting alongside me.

AngelWJedi · Mar 18, 2011, 06:10 AM // 06:10

What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?

nothing for me. its costly to buy. if i couldve gotten least 3 mercs for the price of one i would do it. they gave us a free pane then the option to buy more. why couldnt they do that with mercs>

Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)? Explain.

techincally its not unfair. they are basically like free heros except in looks/name. now if they had pve skills then heck yeah its unfair advantage!

Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values? Why or why not?

kinda yeah in the fact they only gave us so many of each type of hero then turn around and let us buy more of a profression. i.e-7 rts

Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future? In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?

if you mean the trend of showing off something cool then say oh btw you have to pay rl to get it? then they did that in the begining of 4th year.

Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?

profit of course! if it was for fan serive or both we wouldve gotten least one merc for free as a tease.

Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your opinion on the direction of the future of the company; namely - Guild Wars 2? If so, in a positive or negative way?

so far from what i seen no. But if they are going to make it out that you have to pay RL cash to make it in this game ( gw 1) then yeah it would effect my opinion of gw2 in a bad way.

ShaJiexi · Mar 18, 2011, 06:29 AM // 06:29

What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?
None. I have not bought them, and am doing fine that way. Other people's usage of the heroes doesn't seem to resulted in massive farming or other economic disruption that would affect me.
Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)? Explain.
Aesthetic fan service. Nothing has changed, except that you no longer need a second person to run parties with 7-8 of the same profession
Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values? Why or why not?
Yes, I see no problem. Before, you just had to get a minimum of one extra player. Now, you can do the same on your own, since it can be much harder to find more players willing to run crazy shit with you. No problem.
Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future? In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?
If adding more items to the store to generate income is a "trend", then I'm all for it. I like costumes and such, and extra char slots and storage.
Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?
Both. As with any game- it generates profit for the company, and fun for the fans.
Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your opinion on the direction of the future of the company; namely - Guild Wars 2? If so, in a positive or negative way?
Doesn't change it at all.

If you want to see what "paid advantages" are, try playing Silk Road or another similar "free" MMO. See how far you get without paying- you simply CANNOT compete or keep up with paid players. Mercenaries change nothing, except some parties that could only be achieved with two human players are now achievable with one. And since heroes still get allocated drops, I doubt it will have any impact on the economy or help players farm any more easily than they could before (if it would be so profitable, they'd find human players to help- see SoOSC, gogo assassins!)

*lemming* · Mar 18, 2011, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uriel_Wolfblood

I don't see what all the fuss is about honestly. There is nothing merc heroes offer that can't be done with the currently available heroes. Sure there are gimmick builds, but something like full necro, full mesmer, full rit, etc is pretty pointless in my opinion.

Are they selling more options for players? Sure. Are they selling a direct advantage? I don't think so. The only thing I ever got out of it was aesthetic appeal at seeing my beloved characters fighting alongside me.

Well, there's always this.

Really though, I don't think either I nor any of the other people arguing against microtransactions that provide ingame advantages are really doing it because of concrete imbalances. It's the principle of not offering items of those natures that's being broken here. No doubt, it's a tiny advantage, but it's not up for debate that people who purchase mercenary slots have more options available than those who don't.

afya · Mar 18, 2011, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?

A step closer to those MMO that richer people is better in game(you know those MMOs.....). Not a big step, but still....like 70%(normal hero) and 85%(Merc) of human team power.

Quote:

Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)? Explain.

A little bit. Those who bought Mercenary Heroes can build something like 8Nec Discordway, while others can't. It is different from those previous store items. Allow me to talk about them.
Skill pack: skills are available to all players in many different ways, such as quest, trader, balth factions.
BMP: although it offer weapon skins that are unavailable to other players, it also adds mission, aka contents. Like a mini-chapter.
New chapters: new skills and weapons, but also contents. imo, contents are something worth paying for.
On the other hand, costumes and Merc Heroes, especially Merc heroes, give players advantage that is unaccessable to other players.

Quote:

Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values? Why or why not?

It's ok in terms of game themes.

Quote:

Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future? In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?

Yes, I see more and more cash item. Imo, it's unfair for other players. Even the special costumes! All players should have equal ability in game.

Quote:

Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?

Mostly profit. I don't see a huge(In fact, any) demand for Mercenary Heroes from players in or out of game.

Quote:

Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your opinion on the direction of the future of the company; namely - Guild Wars 2? If so, in a positive or negative way?

Yes. And from what I read, Weapons in GW2 is gonna play a bigger role. I am seeing uber weapons offering in cash shop. That would give certain group of players a huge advantage ingame. A few pieces of special costumes during festivals are the most I can tolerate.

Ty for giving us this opportunity to express our view on this subject

and sorry for my bad english and long reply.

Squishy ftw · Mar 18, 2011, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Until I can bring a 3rd mesmer without having to pay for it, I will continue to find this a bullshit update.

Rhyfelwyr · Mar 18, 2011, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

Until I can bring a 3rd mesmer without having to pay for it, I will continue to find this a bullshit update.

QQ more?

If anyone is actually playing the game thinking "Yeah 7 heros is kinda easy but I still need X", then they fail.

This is actually the first time I bought something from the CS, Ive not had to pay a penny for this game in some 3 + 1/2 years so I can't help but laugh at those who think NCSoft are cynical money grabbers offering in game advantages in order to get they're dirty mitts on your money.

Imo Merc heros allow me to achieve I couldn't do already, except have the pleasure of my mains company while playing my alt.

Deadfalk · Mar 18, 2011, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Well IMO, it's not too bad - ok, you can coordinate an 7(or 14, or 21) fold RoJ nuke to roll trough Shards of Orr for example, and a water magic nuke on Destroyers, but that's no advantage - a player party (2man to 8 man) would do this just as well without payment, right?

Nonetheless, i do not think more then 15% of the (semi-)active community will feel themselves called to buy those - if you can't roll trough anything with panic+sabway+spiritway+Optional, you're either screwed something over or are doing something you shouldn't hero.

What i mean to say, is that those heroes dont pose a advantage except to the a-social or noob-friended - comment please?

Hyaon · Mar 18, 2011, 07:39 AM // 07:39

I find the trend worrying, very little content being charged for an awful lot. Having differences in whats available due to expansions is fine because a huge amount of content is given for a usual price. What I don't want to see is tiny bits of scrap being sold off it just turns the game into a real money grindfest, having to farm gold ingame as well as farm real money outside the game!

Don't give me the 'well don't buy it blahblah', end of the day it will leave people out compared to expansions where it made perfect sense to part with your money as you're getting pretty much the same oppourtunities to get some interesting gear or new missions etc.